Think it's crowded now.

[nicojohnson1234@gmail.com]

The mountains of the west are going to get absurdly crowded. You'd think Mr. Nordstrom had enough money.
' On June 17, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and U.S. Forest Service Chief Tom Tidwell announced that the Forest Service will take steps to streamline special-use permitting for national forests and grasslands, to make it easier for non-profit organizations, guides, outfitters, schools, and other groups to lead organized trips on public lands.

Over the next two to three years, the implementation of new processes will make it possible for land managers to make permits for group outings more accessible. Decades long moratoriums on new permits can be lifted and the process of inquiring and securing a permit will be streamlined.

The announcement by the Forest Service comes after more than a year of discussion and collaboration with the Outdoor Access Working Group, a coalition of outdoor industry leaders who joined together to work on improving outdoor access for organized groups. The OAWG represents the full community of organizations focused on leading trips to get people out on their land. There is a vast network of organizations focused on providing immersive outdoor experience, including inner-city non-profits like the YMCA, university and grade school programs, clubs, NOLS, Outward Bound, guide and outfitter services as well as church groups and companies like REI and EMS. These organizations had become frustrated with the challenges associated with securing access to run their programs. Outdoor Research CEO Dan Nordstrom was among the founders of the Outdoor Access Working Group and was intimately involved in the efforts with the Forest Service. We asked him a few questions about what the announcement means for outdoor recreation in the United States.

Who does this announcement affect?

As these guidelines are implemented over time they will help any organization get access to permits to run their programs. The USFS is working toward increased transparency via web based display of where permits are available and ultimately online applications. In many cases there will be increased capacity for more groups. We don’t want to increase traffic in already crowded places, but there are vast areas that are essentially empty yet offer excellent venues to run outdoor programs.

What's one thing that can happen now because of this change?

The main thing that can happen now is that forests can create new permits without potentially requiring the expensive scientific studies that it used to require. For example, Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest has had a commercial guiding permit moratorium for over two decades. So, if you had a new guide service or a nonprofit organization and you wanted to take clients out there, you couldn't get a permit because the Forest Service couldn't offer any more permits. Not because it was too crowded but because they had to do a NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act) study to prove the impacts were acceptable. NEPA studies take a long time and can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yet in many cases it was readily apparent the impact to the land of additional visitors was negligable. Now they can avoid unnecessary expense when the conclusions are straightforward.

But it will take time to roll out these new guidelines to actual implementation in forests and watersheds across the country. These are big changes, reversing decades of policy, and we’ll be working closely with forest service leadership to help make it become standard practice.

How did you get involved with this?

I’ve been involved in working to protect access for a long time. I guess the idea of people being denied the chance to hike or climb for no good reason just gets me really aggravated. I’m a past president of the Access Fund, which was my opportunity to work on these issues. I remember being incredibly frustrated by the idea of banning fixed anchors in wilderness. It was a ridiculous idea and probably the starting point for me getting engaged. At Outdoor Research we work with lots of great organizations, both non-profit and small businesses like guide services, and I realized that the bolting ban was just the tip of the iceberg. The reality is that often the people making the rules don’t have much understanding of what we all do out there. For reasons I don’t entirely understand, it turns out I kind of enjoy trying to fix absurd situations in our government. I’m old enough now to have the patience for it, for better or worse.

This seems like a big victory. What's next for the Outdoor Access Working Group?

This is meaningful, but it's just one step in the journey. The Outdoor Access Working Group was created to do this, but we're not declaring victory and disbanding. We've made progress, kind of amazing progress in just over a year. But now we have to work on implementation, and it seems like the reality is there will always be something new coming out as a result of societal and technology change that creates an absurdity. We have endless examples and there’s no doubt lots more to come. For instance last year someone in DC ‘clarified’ the rule that said you need a permit for ‘commercial photography’. The clarification was that if you took a cell phone shot and posted it on your guides website you should have had a permit. Clearly a ridiculous outcome that we helped them clarify one more time. Another was when an outfitter in the Southeast, who had permits for years to run canoe and kayak trips, bought 10 SUP boards in response to his clients requests. The local forest manager shut him down because the permit didn’t say ’SUP’ on it, though they hadn’t been invented when the permit was issued. It’s pretty amusing to think the government needs to take a position on whether you paddle sitting or standing.

What does this mean for the average recreational outdoorsperson?

This means there will be more opportunity to get outside with experienced qualified group leaders and guides. Right now, there's a lot of energy for getting youth from diverse communities and lower-incomes outside. But if you want to start an organization designed to do that, you'll have a really hard time getting started because the permits are all taken. Now we’re moving quickly toward a future where that will become much more possible.

[nicojohnson1234@gmail.com]

More info.

WASHINGTON, JUNE 17, 2016 AT 10:30 AM EDT - Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and U.S. Forest Service Chief Tom Tidwell today announced steps to make it easier for outfitters, guides, schools, non-profits and other partners to take groups out to enjoy outdoor activities on national forests and grasslands. By streamlining the approach to special-use permitting for national forests and grasslands, our natural resources will be even more accessible to Americans.

"Our national forests and grasslands connect people to nature where they live, providing sustainable recreation opportunities for all Americans," Vilsack said. "The experience of enjoying these lands draws people closer to our vast natural resources and strengthens our connection to what our country has to offer. Today, we are taking steps to make it even easier for people to enjoy our public lands and reap the benefits of our forests, rivers and mountains."

More than 160 million people visit national forest and grasslands annually. The vast majority of families and individual visitors do not need a permit to enjoy outdoor activities in the national forest system.

Forest Service recreation special use permits provide organized access for service providers who take groups of people to national forests and grasslands to experience outdoor recreation, while allowing the Forest Service to manage visitor volume in specific locations and protect resources. Partners and service providers often create opportunities for new visitors, youth, underserved communities, minority visitors and others to experience the great outdoors on our public lands.

"Today, more than ever, people come to know and value places on national forests and grasslands through personal outdoor experiences," said Chief Tidwell. "By modernizing and streamlining our permit processes, we are strengthening our ties to all Americans and their connection to the land. Working with our partners, the Forest Service is connecting citizens with experiences in nature that truly change people's lives."

Outdoor recreation on these public lands also contributes more than $13 billion dollars to the national economy and supports over 205,000 jobs annually. Predominantly based in rural communities, these jobs strengthen local economies through the many small businesses that benefit from proximity to national forests, including more than 5,000 outfitters and guide businesses. The Forest Service currently administers more than 23,000 recreation special use permits a year.

The Forest Service's streamlined approach to special-use permitting will be implemented over time. Ongoing user feedback will help the agency continually evaluate and adjust to provide the best possible customer service. Steps being taken include:

Streamlining the process to receive or renew a recreation special use permit, making it simpler and faster through the use of existing agency authorities.

Increasing staff capacity and the consistency of the permit process across the country by developing new standardized training programs and exploring new staffing strategies. Encouraging managers to take greater advantage of allowable waivers when a special use permit is not required, for example, where a proposed use would have only nominal impact on lands, resources, and programs or operations. Investing in technology to improve business tools and data that support recreation special uses, including an electronic permit application process.

"The steps announced today will improve access for groups and help us better meet the needs of the families, friends and individuals who made 160 million fun, memory-making visits to learn and play in our national forests last year," said Vilsack, "But, we still need Congress to take action now to ensure these opportunities continue to be available by passing a real budget fix that stops the chronic drain on Forest Service resources that comes from the growing costs of fighting wildfire."

In a recent report on the cost of fire suppression, the Forest Service reported that money available for recreation, heritage and wilderness is down 15 percent, while dollars for roads, facilities and deferred maintenance are down 46, 68 and 95 percent respectively. Non-fire-related staff has also been cut by 39 percent since 1998. The cost of fire preparedness and suppression activities has grown from 16 percent of the Forest Service's total budget to more than 52 percent over the last two decades. That shift has come at the expense of programs and staff in other critical activities, including the staff that administers permits. A fire funding solution that stems or reverses the reduction of resources for recreation programs is urgently needed.

USDA is an equal opportunity provider, employer, and lender.

[hatchgreenchile]

A vast majority of public land is free to access, and national parks are a whopping $40-$50 to access all year.
If people wanted to get out, they'd get out. Let's not pretend a streamlined permit system unleashes the hordes that avoided the woods because of these "barriers".

[skifishbum]

this is more about ringing cash registers and selling the experience
than allowing access that is already easily accessible

[Danno]

tl;dr

[plugboots]

this is more about ringing cash registers and selling the experience
than allowing access that is already easily accessible

Yup, Dan just wants to sell more shit.

[sfotex]

If you kill yourself that would be one less person in the woods - its a start.

[ex-powderbroker]

Time to start buying low on the east coast, kailas

[AK47bp]

Nobody goes into the backcountry anymore, too crowded.

[jonesy]

Most don't have enough common sense to be in the woods. Stay home in your yards. They end up hurt,lost or dead. Then WRT gets involved.

[wolfelot]

^^^ sure you didn't mean to say "stay home in front of your TV"? Most mericans don't even do much in their yard these days from what I can tell.

[jonesy]

Non outdoors enthusiasts.

[skifishbum]

in the satch the loudest its to crowded, the side country skiers are takin my pow, whiners are selling the backcountry and their spansered gear
we need a
blog free wasatch

[summit]

Not seeing the problem here

[Toadman]

time to move to northern canada

[raisingarizona13]

This sounds like good news for mountain type people working as guides or business creators trying to create jobs for guides and others. Not every mountain town dweller is a trust funder and these people need jobs. The cool thing about guiding services is there ability to educate people to care more and value our wild places. I think it could be a good thing.

This isn't really related but in certain places here in AZ that are being loved to death permit processes for unguided recreation has been created. It sucks but unfortunately for those places it's been necessary to keep them from being destroyed. It really sucks when private contractors are used to manage those areas. Still, there are plenty of places to go and get away from the crowds, maybe not spring fed creeks as water and swimming in AZ is in high demand and available places for that are not. It's all an unfortunate effect of the blooming human population. What are we to do?

[Gunder]

Yup, Dan just wants to sell more shit.

If Dan just wanted to sell more shit, he probally would have jsut stuck running the family business. The guy is a very passionate outdoor enthusiast and probally spends more time getting after it in the backcountry than the vast majority of posters on here.

We need more guys like Dan to take on the ForestCircus... the whole permit situation is clusterfucked. As is the fact that the MountBaker-Snoqualmie National forest is charging access fees for all trail heads, yet can maintain any of the roads and is now planning on closing the vast majority of them claiming a lack of funding. I'm not talking about rarely used roads either. They are closing some of the most used roads for trail access in the PNW.

[Buster Highmen]

For Mount Rainier purposes, just opening the gate on time would be a giant step back in the correct direction.
Streamline that kinda stuff first.

MRNP is under the Department of the Interior. USFS is under the Department of Agriculture.
The mountains are not going to get absurdly overcrowded because of some bureaucratic permit streamlining.

[John_B]

If Dan just wanted to sell more shit, he probally would have jsut stuck running the family business. The guy is a very passionate outdoor enthusiast and probally spends more time getting after it in the backcountry than the vast majority of posters on here.

We need more guys like Dan to take on the ForestCircus... the whole permit situation is clusterfucked. As is the fact that the MountBaker-Snoqualmie National forest is charging access fees for all trail heads, yet can maintain any of the roads and is now planning on closing the vast majority of them claiming a lack of funding. I'm not talking about rarely used roads either. They are closing some of the most used roads for trail access in the PNW.

What is being talked about to close in Baker-Snoqualmie?

[skifishbum]

If Dan just wanted to sell more shit, he probally would have jsut stuck running the family business. The guy is a very passionate outdoor enthusiast and probally spends more time getting after it in the backcountry than the vast majority of posters on here.

We need more guys like Dan to take on the ForestCircus... the whole permit situation is clusterfucked. As is the fact that the MountBaker-Snoqualmie National forest is charging access fees for all trail heads, yet can maintain any of the roads and is now planning on closing the vast majority of them claiming a lack of funding. I'm not talking about rarely used roads either. They are closing some of the most used roads for trail access in the PNW.

the best part about being a spansered by significant other 1%er
is the love sauce on my face
aint industry jizz

[east or bust]

typical kailas getting his panties ina wad over nothing

[PNWbrit]

If Dan just wanted to sell more shit, he probally would have jsut stuck running the family business. The guy is a very passionate outdoor enthusiast and probally spends more time getting after it in the backcountry than the vast majority of posters on here.

We need more guys like Dan to take on the ForestCircus... the whole permit situation is clusterfucked. As is the fact that the MountBaker-Snoqualmie National forest is charging access fees for all trail heads, yet can maintain any of the roads and is now planning on closing the vast majority of them claiming a lack of funding. I'm not talking about rarely used roads either. They are closing some of the most used roads for trail access in the PNW.

2nded Dan Nordstrom is a good guy.

[Jong Lafitte]

And all at once the trouble started
a pack of murderers and thieves
Like swarms of locusts they descended
their aim to make the townsfolk flee

[ACH]

Not seeing the problem here

Yup...

Sure it helps the outdoor industry, but getting people off their asses and moving is a good thing on a lot of levels.

[Kinnikinnick]

Not seeing the problem here

Of course you wouldn't because you don't remember the mountains before hoards of users from others places, like yourself, moved in. So whats a few more (guided) users?

Get off my lawn.

Partly joking, although in the past year I have run into large guided parties in areas where I never saw a single person in the many years prior. But I guess that is going to be the trend.